Giulia: Welcome everybody to this new episode of the Trust podcast. Today’s topic is social disconnection. Can we focus on the origin of this disconnection to stop shaping the social disruption we are witnessing nowadays? The speakers with us today are Diego Isabel de la Moneda, co-founder of the global hub for the Common Good Foundation and director of the Native Forum for New Economy and Social Innovation. Also, he is an advisor to various international new economy networks and has been elected as a member of the Responsible Leader network of the BMW Foundation. And with him, there is Maria Garcia Alvarez, a lecturer in geopolitics and globalization, rhetoric global challenges, and emergent futures at the Wisdom College. Plus, she’s a certified educator for sustainability by the UN Peace Earth Charter, and she’s the Advisory Board for the EU Research Project Trust that is hosting this podcast, and a member of the SDSN, the UN Sustainable Development solution network. So, welcome everybody, Diego and Maria. May I ask you to share your emotion looking and listening to the description of the photo?

Maria: Yeah, I think today you said that we are going to talk about social disconnection, and that is a little bit what exactly I see in this picture, right? We see this every time we take public transport. How do we not look at each other? And we don’t talk to each other. And sometimes, even when you smile at someone, you can see the other people even uncomfortable that you’re going to start a conversation. And this is sad when you think like how plants communicate with each other—even being a different kind of plant. They all have a system to communicate and interact with each other and care for each other. So, it makes me a little bit sad to see this picture.

Giulia: Thank you, Maria. Diego, what about you?

Diego: Yeah, I agree with Maria with the feeling of sadness, and I would add a feeling of loneliness and because you are with more people in the same coverage in this case. But you feel alone; you don’t look too into the eyes of the rest of the people, as Maria said. And also the feeling of routine you know every day is the same. You cannot remember what happened the day before in the Metro. It’s always the same. The time that you are on public transport because you are going or coming back from your walk to your house. But it’s always the same. It’s a routine, so a deep feeling of loneliness.

Giulia: Yeah, I can. I can relate to this as well, but let me dive into the very topic then. So, what are the consequences of those disconnections? The loneliness and the sadness. What is this social disruption bringing with this? What is the worst result expected? And if we don’t talk now, what should be happening then?

Maria: I think how far we can go right with this, uh, disconnection from each other. I think we have seen the results we have so far. Uhm of our disconnection among people going through a more polarized world, conflict or social conflict that is a is becoming even attention in our daily routine or we’re making out of our routine. Also, this kind of tension between each other and then let this connection with the ecosystem is taking asset to 80 more than 85% of biodiversity laws. The problems we have obviously with climate change that we cannot keep ignoring. So, if this is what we have so far, how much evidence do we need? Or do you know what will happen? In 10 years from now, if we continue this disconnection, creating this bigger gap, I think. Everything around us is like red flags. And I wonder why are we not able to see them or only a few of us are seeing them?

Diego: Yeah, I agree, and I think that with this social disconnection we are coming to a lot of risks. Because the social disconnection is I can see it as a set tribal disconnection. The first one is that this connection with the others. The second one is a disconnection with nature. The third one is this connection with yourself and probably this last one is the most important because who enjoys disconnect from who you are, who you really are? Then it’s impossible to be connected with others or with nature. And as Maria said, it is we are living a quite dangerous time. Unfortunately, it’s really easy to imagine a very dystopian future with horrible things coming into our lives. Because of these tensions, as Maria was that Maria was saying. And it’s quite difficult to think of a utopian future, so even being an optimistic person, it’s time. It’s month, its year is more difficult to imagine that we are going to be able to change this tendency until build together a better future. An obvious side is quite easy to imagine destroying together over future.

Maria: I have the feeling that we have to make a choice and we’re not daring, you know, and especially that I work with young people. I have the feeling that it’s something that isn’t holding us from this position to act. You know we’re so good at thinking, but it’s about doing and there’s something they’re holding us back and I don’t know. Sometimes I get frustrated because I don’t know how many red flags do we need. How many warnings around us do we need?

Giulia: This is interesting because I would have agreed a few months ago, but then after the pandemic, I realized that maybe we are in a wonderful opportunity to tap into a collective sadness, the collective loneliness, now levelling all types of economic income or social condition or spiritual condition. I mean, maybe this time could have been also used to create a possible future different from the one we are co-producing now even without knowing that each of us is doing a part in this disconnection. What do you think about the reality of your daily embodiment of the values you highlighted and what do you think we can create from here?

Maria: I agree with you and I sense that as well. More than the opportunity for these, tapping into not only the collective sadness and what do we do with that, but you know the collective wisdom that we also have. I’d be more even than an opportunity in need, right? I see the need to reconnect again. I see the need to break through this loneliness, but my problem or I’m becoming a little bit pessimistic, is how we care to create a path that can allow us to do so? Because at the same time we’re really fighting with a society and a politic. Yeah, I would say political class that is not making this easy since sometimes really that they are working against us. You know, working against that recognition and that that really worries me, especially for the young people, because we’re losing hope. And that is a dangerous moment when you lose hope, right? ‘cause then that is for me. Fuel fraction fuel for doing. Some, but maybe I’m too pessimistic.

Diego: I think we are realistic, but you know I consider myself an optimistic person. But I agree with Maria that even we have the opportunity as you just said to build something better, but you look around yourself. You switch on the TV and listen to the news and the politicians and so on and so far, and it’s really difficult to find a light of hope and what’s going to happen. And we discuss that. We talk about that but what is the action that you can see around you is violence and conflict and tension. So maybe the field should be a little bit worse. Maybe we need more financial crisis pandemics to realize that we need to change the way that we are living and here I agree with Maria that maybe young people always allow history, Young people were the people trying to improve life in the future and nowadays it’s really difficult to find young people really taking action. So, this is something to be concerned about. Though I think that probably we need to allow them to talk and to raise their voices and to do things because of course adults are not doing it in the right way otherwise we wouldn’t be in the situation that we are. So, I think that this crisis is a big opportunity. I agree with that. But I also agree with Maria that is very difficult to see. What is the horrible? Which is the next step that we need to take in a systemic way, not just during individual action because many people are doing beautiful things every day, but maybe systemically, it’s difficult to see what should happen. What should happen to change politics to change the economic system, to change everything that is around us? Yeah?

Maria: Yeah.

Giulia: You are anticipating my next question because you are one of the examples of individual action that nevertheless acts on the system. For instance, Maria, you are the creator of the value creators. That is a course that is changing the pedagogy and the way we are teaching students, so it’s not teacher-centric. Neither student-centric, but it’s activating an ecosystem on knowledge to understand the sustainability is far more than planting a tree, but as Diego was saying is a disconnection that involves both the social, the economic, and the spiritual realm. So, for instance, Maria, you can tell us how do you do to connect, to impose to get young people engaged in those kinds of conversations and action, hopefully.

Maria: I think mention the value creators when we designed this concept, so it’s not only me but a team of other teachers. We wanted a concept that it was ok to stop, putting all these classes and knowledge should be a tool, not a goal. And let’s get them moving. You know, let’s get them doing and they can fail because also I think in education, we have created systems where failure is almost not allowed. And that’s a pity because I think probably this is one of the biggest issues with young people. They are so afraid to fail. That’s what sometimes they prefer not to do anything that to do in a decade that we need action more than ever, right? So even here in the Netherlands, they have a word for that they fall almost to define this fear of failing or doing something wrong and now. I think we need much more learning environments that encourage our students to go there to get their hands dirty outside of the classrooms. You know, cooperate really with the people and that is doing already changing. Trying to change this world and to give them back hope. Yeah, by showing them that sometimes you know you can change something that is small around you, and that creates waves of change that with their time could become bigger. I think sometimes young people think big or they feel the pressure that we expect from all of them to be a Nelson Mandela and that is not true. But if you’re changing yourself, you can change your family, your friends sometimes you can do something to change your neighbourhood. That’s what we’re trying to do. I think there’s a lot of people in education trying to do this. It’s still constraints around us bureaucracy bigger system makes sometimes these things difficult. Ah, but I think we need to try, and I think that students need to learn with people. So, like Diego, that’s what we love for them to be engaged with real networks and see what other people professionals are doing. Is the action for doing. You know it’s a decade for action, I mean.

Giulia: Indeed, there is this famous quote by Margaret Mead that says “Never underestimate the power of a small group of committed people to change the world”. It is the only thing that ever has both in a good sense or a bad sense. Take Hitler or take I don’t know Gandhi. So, it’s really about the beacon being contagious. Speaking about pandemics nowadays I would also like to hear from Diego about his leverage point to involve and engage leaders rather than young people. How about your strategies with the NESI Forum?

Diego: Yeah, we are doing in the negative form of a new economy and social innovation. We think that we want to protect nature, we want to eradicate inequalities. We need to change the economy because the economy current system brought us many good things. But at the same time, there are some failures that we all agree on, such as climate change that is credible because of our lifestyle and economic system or many rights inequalities. So, we really are working in transforming the system in thinking about how to transform power and empowering every consumer and citizen because we have the power to decide what we buy, what kind of products or what we don’t buy because we don’t need to consume so much and also to empower businesses to really behave in a different way and also to develop innovative public policies to transform the economic system that we are doing. But my imitation today listening to Maria and to yourself and your questions may be testing today to each one that is, listening to us is. Go out and join as many small groups as you said in your neighbourhood, with your classmates, with your friends with your family, and ask them what can we do together. Because we know that we need to improve things. What can we do together and involving as many small groups that you can not only one of in one is more root? They try to make the right question and probably your friends, your relatives or your classmates will start to inspire you with really good answers and then you can find what is the one thing that you can do together that you cannot do by yourself and that can be a small thing in your neighbourhood that could be of morphine in your school or whatever in your company or whatever you are involved and but getting big come together with many different people and try to enjoy diversity not only with one group of people with different kind of people because that will enrich you and that will allow you to increase the impact that you can do with the actions that you start.

Giulia: Thank you, thank you very much and Diego maybe the last question before leaving the floor to the student’s curiosity. What is the hook you have for bringing a leader so high-level decision-maker into your boat let’s say, and it will be the same question to Maria. Which is the hook you are using to get young people interested in this kind of discussion and actions.

Maria: I don’t have magic words.I think for the student I try to change their worldviews to challenge them at least, and now to make them feel the urgency of the moment. You know, we teach their charter, which is a document that has 20 years are already in the preamble of their charter is pointing out to the urgency of the moment 20 years ago, but now it really, we’re running out of time and I think that is the pressure this generation should have and I think we should not be naive. Should you know sometimes my students say, oh we get depressed from your lessons. Yeah, well. Welcome to the world. You know we have to stop battering in and putting on sugar-coating. Everything we say to young people. Someone has to tell them the crude reality and the urgency of this moment. That’s my magic word. We’re running out of time.

Diego: Yeah, in my kids we are working more with adults than we jump people, unfortunately. There are different ways to make them think that way, but one that I like is to talk and to ask them about the legacy that they want leave to their grandsons or granddaughters. Because they are business people, or they are policymakers or politicians, and they are very involved in the things that they are doing today. They are not thinking so much about the future in the works, but when you ask them what do you think as things are going on, that your grandsons or granddaughters will think about Jewel because you are a very powerful person. They will not be proud of you. They will not be proud of their grandfather or mother and you probably don’t want that to start to rethink how to behave and how to use your power to make you run sons and granddaughters proud of you and proud of all the people that are living nowadays. And then they look at you in a very different way, because they realize that probably they are being so selfish that they are even being a problem for the future relations but not as future generations as they future families and relatives. So that’s something that is it. It works. It works with us.

Giulia: Wow, it sounds like it’s a very concrete urgency as the one of Maria as well. So, I leave the floor to Ege Can Yazici that is a newly graduated junior architect from Politecnico di Torino now in Istanbul. So please Ege would you like to ask something to our guest speaker today?

Ege: Uh, hello. First of all, I would like to thank you for joining this very interesting discussion. I would like to ask a general question regarding the global-scale impact of social disconnections that we’re facing today. Do you think that it is possible to tackle the issues regarding social disconnection within the framework of our current economic, social and political structures, is it possible to progress towards a more socially connected feature with modifications to these structures? Or do you think that reform is necessary?

Maria: I will leave the floor to Diego in this one first.

Diego: Ok, this is a very systemic and difficult question, thank you. And yes, we need to reform. We need a new social contract you know that the social contract that we’re living with is that if you get a job and you start working hard and change the society will allow you education and health system. And I’m getting the house and also having time for some leisure. And now that social contract is broken because not many people are allowed to get that even if you are working hard every day, you have the time to enjoy your family and friends or nature. You don’t have the resources to get a house for yourself, so even that social contract that was built-in in the 40s or 50s after the Second World War is destroyed. So, we need a new social contract. But for that, we need a very deep discussion and conversation in our society. That is not it. It’s still going on so we are not discussing what I offered to the community. What I expect from the community. And so, we are just living in tension because that social contract is broken. So, we need to really rethink about that, about the future of work, because it’s not going to be the same that is now, people are not going to be working for one company for all their lives that were the promise probably for Maria, for me when we were young people. Now it’s different and probably you will have different words at the same time and that could be good. But then we need to change the social contract to change many things and policymakers are not discussing this. So yes, we need a very deep reform. Exactly how I don’t know. That is the discussion that we need to address.

Maria: Yeah, I totally agree with that and for me, it would be important to see the role that education is going to play in all the roles of academia. I think, if we sustain this system, we won’t advance because even in the universities, we are working from a capitalistic neoliberal way of operating, we are creating and educating people to feed the needs of a market and an industry and I think this needs to change. We are constructing a competence-based curriculum and I think we need to move to a consciousness-based curriculum and start not only educating. I’m not saying professions are not important or discipline is not important but we have to also understand that it will become more and more transdisciplinary as they always say in the work market, is going to change completely, and we cannot underestimate the impact that also artificial intelligence is going to have on technology in that transformation. So, we need also to go beyond discipline and to educate not human capital by him and being citizens of the world and that can be part of the transformation. So, we need to rethink that the whole concept and it’s interesting because I teach emerging features and I asked my students to read the reports that the European Union is publishing the global trends 20-30 the World Forum for Economics has also published a report and in it slipped away. All these reports are mentioning a revolution. A revolution that has had to do with the social contract. So will we will go through certain destruction to be able to reconstruct again from another perspective. Because in the framework we have now, the answer would be is not then change possible.

Giulia: Yeah, thank you Ege for the question, it was really interesting to point at the systemic level, so it’s like you want to add your app on the phone, but your phone has an older operating system so it doesn’t work, so you have to change the OS version to install a new app. And so, I can leave the floor now to Valerie Adolff that is an emotionally intelligent trainer to listen now on a physical level with a mindful practice. What we have listened to on a mental and maybe emotional level. So, Valerie, please. The floor is yours.

Valerie: Thank you very much. Thank you to everyone who was so inspiring and I really thought well. How can we start now and how much can we do? So, I invite you for meditation which is called Meta Meditation. Meta means found this friendliness and it’s one of the pillars of Buddhism which is meant to reduce loneliness. Where we started from the beginning on connects to self and connect to others. So, I invite you just take a little distance and just sit comfortably on. On the seat where you’re sitting and just feel your feet on the ground. And just feel what all this discussion and the information had done to yourself. How do you feel it in the body? You might need to breathe deeply and just with a big sigh, breathe out. And I just invite you to feel what does it do to your body to listen to this disconnection and the need for connection. This same boundless friendliness meditation will be done in five categories. I will tell you a well-wishing sentence and I invite you to repeat them silently. And we will use different categories first, directing these friendly words to ourselves than to friends and a loved person, then to a person in this podcast, then to a challenging person, and finally to a group of persons. So, we will brighten and widen each time, more the friendliness and wishing to connect to others. So, let’s start. Bring up before your mind’s eye an image of yourself. It could be an image of nowadays, or it could be even from a formal time in your life. And I invite you to repeat after me silently. May I be healthy? May I feel safe and full of hope? May I be guided by a clear heart and towards collective wisdom. And the second round may I be healthy. May I feel safe and full of hope? May I be guided by a clear heart? and towards collective wisdom. And let go of this image of yourself. And bring up the image of a friend with a loved one. And let’s just direct and address these friendly words to that person. May you be healthy. May you feel safe and full of hope. May you be guided by a clear heart and towards collective wisdom. And again. May you be healthy. May you feel safe and full of hope. May you be guided by a clear heart. and towards collective wisdom. And again, let’s go and let the image of that person go. Can you invite the image of a person to the podcast? Before your mind’s eye and send also this person the best wishes. May you be healthy. May you feel safe and full of hope. May you be guided by a clear heart and towards collective wisdom. May you be healthy. May you feel safe and full of hope? May you be guided by a clear heart. and towards the collective wisdom. And let go of the image of that person. And let’s invite the image of a challenging person. Better not using your lifetime rival, but a person that you might be annoyed with, or something that you don’t like about that person. And learn also to send this person. May you be healthy. May you feel safe and full of hope. May you be guided by a clear heart and towards collective wisdom. And again, may you be healthy. May you feel safe and full of hope. May you be guided by a clear heart and towards collective wisdom. And let go of the image of that challenging person. And open up to a group of persons. It might be your neighbourhood. That may be the time, the place where you’re staying. It might be a coworking group or group you wish really, as Julia said before, create something bigger. And let’s send them these friendly words. May we all be healthy. May we all feel safe and full of hope. May we all be guided by a clear heart and towards collective wisdom. May we all be healthy. May we all be safe and full of hope. May we be guided by a clear heart and towards collective wisdom. Let also go now this image of this group. And again, connected yourself to space you’re sitting in with your feet on the ground and connects to your body. How is it now? How much can you do? How much do you feel strength? Hope and being connected. And for closing this podcast I invite now each of you to rip up your experience with the three words. So, the first words that pop up don’t overthink too much and I will just start with Ege. Please can you just find or give us the three words that make the resume of that podcast?

Ege: Reform, urgency and collaboration.

Valerie: Thank you, what about you Maria? What would you say?

Maria: I will go for transformation, reconnection and loads of hope.

Valerie: Thank you Maria. What about you Diego? What would you say?

Diego: I would say connection, action and peace.

Valerie: Lovely!

Giulia: Thank you. Thank you all and it’s been fantastic having you here. Thank you.